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Message: But wait,there's more!
Author: putting-her-2-cents-in, - Ali Livius
Date: Jan 28, 1999 10:45
Also from the "In search of History programme": As depicted in tomb paintings, the Etruscans did everything to music--the double-pipe player is visible in scenes of everyday life--while making bread, while hunting (it was thought that the music actually helped to tame the animals), at feasts and funerals, and even during love-making (with the musician present)(!)

The commentary was that as Rome moved northward, attacking Veii then Cerveteri then Tarquinia then Vulsci and finally Orvieto, had the 12 cities banded together to form one Etruscan force rather than bickering between themselves, they might have stood a chance against the romans.

Developments/practices attributed to the Romans but which were actually Etruscan in origin: The archway Sewers and aqueducts Fights to the death for entertainment (oddly enough, the Etruscans held this entertainment at funerals--celebrating death with death; and violently too--putting wild dogs on the victim, covering a wrestler's head with a sack while his masked tormentor tied him with cords, stabbed him and let dogs attack him) and.... Roman numerals! They're Etruscan! The Romans were disgusted with the "decadence" of the Etruscans, their hedonistic lifestyles and their loose women.         
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Message: New Business suggestion--bibliography
Author: the enterprising - Ali Livius
Date: Jan 28, 1999 11:05
Since we are all doing our own reading (Kudos to you, Tuscus Sempronius), might we start some type of bibliography board, everyone can list what they are reading and a small commentary, and include author/publ/ISBN # so we can order this stuff or get it at the library?
Cosa ne pensate voi?
Whaddaya think?        

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Message: Bibliography
Author: T. Sempr. - Tuscus Sempronius
Date: Jan 28, 1999 12:57
A bibliography would be of great help/interest to most of us, I would think, and especially to newcomers who are trying to make sense out of some of the byways we travel down in our postings. I expect to have a bibliography up on my own website either today or tomorrow, but can we build one at the Etruria site that everyone can find easily? The annotations/ISBNs are half of the value, in my opinion. Especially when some of us order sight unseen from places like Amazon, etc. If we can't conveniently do a biblio here, I volunteer to edit one at my site, incorporating postings here (to a new bibliography/review topic?) or those sent directly to me.        

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Message: re: bibliography
Author: the appreciative - Ali Livius
Date: Jan 28, 1999 14:16
Thanks, T. Sempre. I'll go through my notes tonight and come up with some things to list. Hopefully people will contribute to this!        

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Message: New Met Museum Greek exhibit
Author: - Tuscus Sempronius, Patron
Date: Apr 22, 1999 06:38
A little off-topic: For those of you within driving distance of NYC, there is a new (actually, returning) Greek exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum. It's got its own full-page ad in the special museum insert in the NY Times (Wed., 4/21). The photo in the ad could be Etruscan -- a sphinx or harpy figure.        
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Message: Anybody else at Etruria?
Author: - Tuscus Sempronius, Patron
Date: Apr 27, 1999 11:08
The board's been silent for two weeks. Am I talking to myself? Has everyone disappeared into an Etruscan dream of feasts, leaping dolphins and flights of birds?!        

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Message: Here
Author: - AULUS Sergius, Patron
Date: Apr 27, 1999 13:24
I have been doing some research on some stuff and finally got my daughter to scan some photos of some slides I took in Caere. I hope to post a bunch of stuff soon.         

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Message: Etruscan madness
Author: - Tuscus Sempronius, Patron
Date: May 13, 1999 06:32
Hello, Fellow Etrurians!

Some silliness for you. I guess I'm moving in the direction of "How many Etruscans does it take to change a light bulb?" Why not pick on dead civilizations for a change? Maybe no one's posting because we've gotten too stuffy here. Is this not a Y2K problem, but a Y0K problem??

Besides, even I get tired of seeing my name posted here quite this often :) So please try out a few of these and post your responses.

1. At a cocktail party, what would you wear to impress the Romans?
   
2. What's the name of the current pop song among young Etruscans these days?
   
3. What contemporary people in the news and on TV could be Etruscans--and why?
   
4. Where should the Etruscans have settled to avoid the eventual Roman conquest?
   
5. According to the Etruscans, what is the meaning of life?
   
6. What are the top 10 things to do if you're Etruscan?
   
7. What would be a good epitaph for an Etruscan, considering modern interest (and possible misunderstandings)?
   
8. Following the lofty and dignified tradition of American humor, "you know you're Etruscan when . . ."
   

1. Who were the Etruscans?
   

1. They were fatalistic they believed as a group that they had only 900 years ending about 100 BC.
   
2. Many of the original inhabitants of Rome were infact Rasna.
   
3. They were city states and didnot mutually fight together.
   

• The Cisalpine peoples (who supplied troops to Rome).
  
• (End: 90 BCE ) The Praetor Lucius Porcius Cato was sent to Etruria and the legatus to Plotius in Umbria in order to quell some rebellions and to prevent their escalation. (The Year 88 BCE) Rome with great hard work and blood-shed tamed the great Italic rebellion which was militarily and politically more dangerous than Hannibal's invasion during the second Punic War.
  

• the Etruscans as with the other Italic peoples had all the duties of the Roman citizens but not the rights;
  

• the Etruscans were dominated by an oligarchic alliance of speculative land owners, most of whom were Roman. The mercantile middle class had disappeared with the loss of its naval dominion and fleet, its people subjected to a progressive impoverishment as a result. If this analysis is right it doesn't explain why the Etruscan nation did not embrace the cause of the Italic confederation and that it tried only one timid protest which was soon dispelled. Another unexplainable attitude is that of the Cisalpine Celtic nation, and one which I will not try to analyze.
  

• large financial means in order to enlist armies consular professionals who would obey their commander (backer) alone and would no longer obey the oligarchical senate;
  
• support of the movement of the popular masses headed by the plebean tribunes and therefore unconditional support of the popular masses of Roman citizens
  
• homines novi to manage a new future in place of the representatives of the powerful and oligarchical families of the Roman Senate. Only in this way would long-lasting change be possible. Caesar chose as his personal collaborator the rich Roman-Hispanic Cornelius Bassus, the official Aulus Hirtius and the cultured and well-read Caius Oppius. Octavius Augustus only chose two persons as confidants:
  
• the Venetian (or istrian) plebean Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa from a family without consular and praetorian traditions.
  
• the Etruscan nobleman Caius Cilnius Maecenas who was (or so he believed) a descendant from the (perhaps) royal house of the Cilnii. The enormous influence of Maecenas on Augustus will be and cannot be explained by reading the ancient sources. The facts but demonstrate that only the intelligence and refinement of the new masters of the world (Augustus, Tiberius, Claudius) would change secular attitudes of hostility towards the Etruscan world.
  

• (March 15,(night) 44 BCE) A gigantic comet described its fiery wake in the city's nocturnal sky.
  
• (March 16, 44 BCE) - marked the beginning of the tenth and last Saeculum (of the Etruscan nation).
  
• (March 20, 44 BCE) At the funeral of Caesar the Etruscan haruspex Volcatius interpreted the apparition of the comet which appeared on the day of Caesar's murder as the event that determined the end, after 44 years, of the ninth saeculum (of the Etruscan nation) and the beginning of the tenth saeculum (the last one granted to the Etruscan nation). He revealed this (in his own words) against the wishes of the gods, knowing that he may have to pay with his life, and in fact was stricken down dead soon afterwards without apparent cause. This recalls facts of which little is known by lovers of ancient history. Instead other events which transpired during that period are much better known:
  
• 44 BCE . - Year 710 of the Foundation of Rome Year 466 of the Roman Republic Year 4 of the 183rd Olympiad Year 864 of the Etruscan nation (end of the 9th saeculum and beginning of the 10th) etc .....
  
• 
  

• to the North by the warlike Ligurian tribes and Cisalpine celts (Boii Gauls);
  
• to the East by the Umbrian tribes and to some extent by the Samnites, and the border was formed by the Tiber river;
  
• to the West with the Tyrrhenian sea;
  
• to the South with Rome and the Latin people, and the border was formed by the Tiber river; Cities of the smaller "dodecapoli" and more important Etruscan centers were situated close to the sea or bordered on the Arno and Tiber rivers. This was for two fundamental reasons:
  
• A convenient form of communication and commerce (It is believed that the Arno river was navigable up to Faesulae and the Tiber river up to Perusia;
  
• defense of the territory and the ready and immediate borders. Practically speaking, the East side of Etruria was defended by Arretium, Cortona, Perusia, Clusium, Volsinii and Falerii (allied Faliscan center but of the Etruschi). The South side was defended by Veii (perhaps the largest and powerful of the "dodecapoli"). The west coast of the Tyrrhenian sea was defended by Caere, Tarquinii, Vulci, Rusellae, Vetulonia and Populonia. The North side was defended by Faesulae and Volaterrae. In 396 BCE with the conquest of Veii and its territory by Rome, the possession of the two cities Sutrium and Nepet (approximately 40 km to north of Rome) was ensured. They were then fortified and colonised. They represented a Roman wedge into Etruscan territory. The Etruscan response was swift and the annals tell us that despite successive attempts, some successful, and others not, the two fortresses could not be regained. One is tempted to think that the conquest of the Etruria was a done deal, but this was not the case for three reasons:
  
• Rome on its Eastern flank had a terrible enemy - the Samnites;
  
• Free Etruscan territory was well defended militarily;
  
• Etruria served to Rome against the danger of the Celts (and never forget that only the Senonine Gauls risked to conquer it before Christ) up to that area not taken by the Samnites. We shall not dwell on the Samnite wars whose outcome we know well. We shall instead analyze the morphology of Etruscan territory. Rome had at its disposal three ways to invade Etruria:
  
• to invade via the Tiber River; - to invade via the Tyrrenian coast;
  
• to cross the chain of the Cimini mountains and the immense Saltus Ciminius (Cimina Forest). Rome did not invade via the coast for two reasons.
  
• the territory was swampy [ the dangers of contracting malaria (an infectious disease), - there was always the danger of flanking attacks from the Etruscan fleet on disembarking troops. Rome tried with partial successes to invade by way of the Tiber. It invaded the territory of Perusia, Arretium but the conclusions were always partial military successes. All that remained was via the Cimina Forest - a large forest, and a route that was vulnerable to ambushes. The Roman were still frightened by the disaster of the loss of the legions at the Furculae Caudinae, but is not this the reason that the Roman consuls and legions desisted. The Romans firmly believed all the historical religious legends (invented on purpose by the Etruscan priests) that the forest was impenetrable. The Etruscans were thus confident in this weakness: that the Romans would never deploy troops to attack that zone. In reality it seems that the Saltus Ciminius was a large forest comparable to those of Southern Germany. But in 310 BCE, the consuls Quintus Fabius and Maximus Rullianus made a daring move by marching with the two legions up to the margins of the Forest. This devious move did not have the authorization of the Senate Roman but two subordinates who understood the Etruscan language were sent ahead as scouts to meet up with any crossing Etruscan peasants. In that way they protected themselves from the danger of enemy ambushes. Nowadays this seems obvious, we might ask -Why wasn't it done before? One thing is for sure - the Cimina Forest had never been crossed up to then by Roman or Latin Merchants. The report brought back by the two guides (scouts) was amazing. In the Forest there were no particular dangers - only Etruscan peasants busy in their work, but no army garrisons, fortresses, or cities.
  
• 
  
• THE KEY TO THE ATTACK OF ETRURIA HAD BEEN FOUND AND OPENED: THIS WAS THE CIMINA FOREST.
  

• length 1200 meters
  
• width more than 1.5 meters;
  
• height variable between 2 and 3 meters.
  

1. The question of the Romans and the quality of their art as compared to Greek and Etruscan art.
   
2. The question of interest in Etruria- Should the group be separate from Rome, or does it reflect the way that Etruria ended up buried (sometimes literally) by Rome.
   
3. During the chat, a few of us were discussing Etruscopolis, mainly from the perspective that the owner is an ex tombaroli, and possibly art forger from many years ago, who has served some time in prison. There were some differences of opinion as to how appropriate it is for such a person to be running such an establishment.
   
4. The sack of Veii. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tackling the first question last, I believe (my opinion) that there is probably no harm in an ex art forger and tombarolle running a place like Etruscopolis, even ethically. From the reports that I have read, Omero is totally reformed. He is an acknowledged expert in Etruscan vases, and produces replicas for many overseas museums. The standard of the workmanship is so good that he has to put markings on the base of the vase to distinguish them from the real item.
   

1. its boundaries have a perimeter of around 5 kilometers, with 8 gates and a total area of around 150 hectares. We can estimate that the number of the Caerites was around 100.000.
   
2. from 400 BCE. to 200 BCE. the great Roman families sent their children here to receive a suitable education.
   
3. At Delphi, centre of the oracle of Apollo, there is a building consecrated to the god (Etruscan Aplu) where the votive gifts were sent.
   
4. After the conquest by Rome, it was perhaps classified as the tribe Veturia.
   

1. considered always by all the Etruscans as the mother city, the spiritual capital being the source of the revelation of Tagetes.
   

1. its boundaries have a perimeter of 3,27 kilometers and are height until 7 meters. Is a fortitudo city.
   

1. its boundaries have a perimeter of around 5 kilometers. We can estimate the number of Vetulonienses at around 100.000.
   
2. is the most important city of maritime northerner Etruria. Its supremacy will be put in discussion by Populonia risen to the role of Leage- city after the fall of Veio.
   
3. Connected to the sea thanks to the Lacus Prilius, today prosciugat POPULONIA
   

1. Its boundaries have a perimeter of around 9 kilometers and a surface area of around 119 hectares. The two more important doors are: Door Diana and Door of the Arc.
   
2. It is considered as Veii and Tarquinii among the greatest metropolises of the League. We can estimate the number of Volterrani at around 100.000.
   

1. Livius has no reliable sources of information, because he is describing events which happened approximately 400 years before his time.
   
2. Livius is obliged to paint a dramatic picture of this unique and irrepeatable event in the history of the Urbs.
   
3. Livius must justify the course of events and must suppress the truth to achieve this aim. There have been written a great many books on the merits or otherwise of Livy. We won't get into those arguments here.